A Grand Machiavellian Scheme
So I got to thinking a few weeks ago about how Justin's actions leading up to Nicodemus' murder could be construed or misconstrued if the proper "evidence" was uncovered.
It could be argued that Justin purposely mishandled the investigation into Jenner's activities because Justin was a power-hungry jerk and wanted Nicodemus out of the way without wanting to get his paws dirty.
In effect, he allowed Jenner to do the deed, and then killed Jenner for it so that he could cement his image as all-around hero and doer of good and therefore be a shoe-in as Nicodemus' successor. We already know Justin's an accomplished schmoozer, so this likely would not be beyond his acting abilities.
That said...is there anyone out there who would be interested in exploring this proposed plot? I was thinking this sort of thing would be right up Raganzi's alley, but he'll need allies and henchrats and what not to pull this off. Accomplished thiefs and forgers would be necessary to fabricate any evidence that can't be found in the colony records.
Let me know what you think!
~Caboose
strange and interesting
it's an intriguing concept, yes, but i'm not so sure how well it would work. I'm wondering how far this would be taken. I can see someone like Raganzi fueling this for his own political purposes, but i honestly can't see Justin being power hungry. It just doesn't seem to fit.
A little bit of political upheaval might be a good thing, tho. I think it's worth exploring, in the least.
He's a politician...
...of course he's power hungry. ;)
Justin, as we know him, is very charismatic and a great actor. As such, it's highly possible for him to have cloaked his true intentions with these skills.
I mean, if you hadn't seen the original "Star Wars" trilogy and didn't know that Senator Palpatine would become the Emperor, would you have thought him capable of the scheming and manipulating he was up to throughout the entire set of prequels?
Justin's scheming would be far more elegant, though, because he wouldn't have even directly influenced events the way Palpatine did.
Anyway...who else is interested in causing the Valley a bit of political upheaval? Anyone?
~Caboose
Not interested
Sorry, but I may already be involved in another Raganzi RP that involves me mass-producing weapons for him. Cedric would never consciously work against the colony (he won't know Raganzi's full intentions for the weapons before it's too late). He would never get involved in a plot to frame Justin. He respects the leader and would never try to bring Justin down. In fact, he wouldn't believe anything the others would have against him.
I see a great potential for
I see a great potential for this plot. Justin and Joseph are two 'politicians' who happen to be familiar with Zohar as well. Something like this could also blow Zohar's lineage wide open if it got serious enough and could complicate the matters even more. (You know he keeps it secret so he wouldn't be an influence).
If this takes off as a major RP, I'd love it.
I like where you're going with this. Not only does it test Justin, but it also tests those around him, not to mention Isabella as well. It could also test the bond between Zohar and Justin if Raganzi managed to start making Zohar doubt things. ;)
I'm skeptical...
While the idea by itself is intriguing, per se, I have doubts as to how feasible this whole plot really is.
First of all, it would be rather difficult for anyone to implicate Justin due to his popularity, especially amongst the second-gens. Any rumour or suspicion about his motivations wouldn't parse with most people upon breaking out; they'd just be ascribed as ugly rumours.
Second, you forget who's in charge of maintaining the colony records ;)
However, they are some ways this can conceivably work. For one thing, how much ardent support does Justin have amongst the colony? If most rats are supportive of him are his leadership and consider him to be an excellent fellow, then you'll be hard-pressed to stir anything up against him, and it may even backfire. However, if there's even a significant proportion of people who wonder how a 'young fella' like Justin got the job, then you could have something brewing...
Likewise, while Joseph helps manage the records, he's also known to be a vocal supported of Justin. Maybe the 'conspiracy' could be tied to him him as well ;)
Anyway, I'd like to see how far this idea can go, but like I said, I have my doubts.
Resident spacecase
Inveterate dreamer
Resident spacecase
Inveterate dreamer
Me again
Don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting idea to say the least. I just don't want my char to get too involved in politics. If the wizzes don't have anything to say about it, go for it.
Your Concerns
1. Popularity can be undermined by both rumor and evidence, hence why accomplished thieves and forgers would be needed for Raganzi to pull this off.
2. While Joseph might be in charge of keeping the records, do you honestly mean to claim that *every* last scrap of important parchment was gathered and brought safely to the colony after the evacuation from the Rosebush? Quite frankly, given the assured chaos of that night, I find that implausible at best.
Regardless of that fact, however, is that Raganzi would be employing the skills of rats who are good at manufacturing evidence. That is truly the key to this plot. Believable (and to an extent unbelievable) evidence will further Raganzi's scheming in this case.
Justin might have his ardent supporters, but I would imagine that they'd turn on him quickly enough if *evidence* to support the 'wild' accusations against him turned up. He essentially stands accused of murdering Nicodemus. I would imagine that would act as a *very* effective wedge to lever him away from his supporters.
~Caboose
It is very implausible to
It is very implausible to think all the records could have been saved from the Rosebush. Who says none of them were altered, anyway?
Raganzi's scheming is probably very well thoughtout, and he'd probably use anything he can find against Justin so long as it wasn't utterly bogus.
Oooh...
Well, this would certainly be a switch from the usual scenarios on the MUCK. Plus, anything that features Raganzi is fine by me. He's such a fun character. Too bad Victoria hasn't been on in awhile...she'd be perfect for this.
I do, however, have an off-topic remark to the person who made this comment....
I mean, if you hadn't seen the original "Star Wars" trilogy and didn't know that Senator Palpatine would become the Emperor, would you have thought him capable of the scheming and manipulating he was up to throughout the entire set of prequels?
Dude, Palpatine was the most obvious bad guy in the history of ever. And that includes Scar from "The Lion King", Lucius Malfoy from the "Harry Potter" films, and Jenner himself. Even without seeing the originals, you can tell that. (Or with half your brain stem missing, for that matter. I mean, c'mon, who smirks like that at a funeral?!)
I'm sorry, Caboose. Back to the topic.
So yeah. I love this idea, though it'll take some doing. :D *tries to ignore the sounds of Isabella screaming and throwing things*
--Cordy
Hmm...
I guess you've won me over, on principle n.n I'm still going to be a bit circumspect, though.
The reason I factored in Justin's popularity was that this might ultimately affect how willing the rats are to believe the new accusations against Justin. Even with documents coming in, how would they know that they were real? Still, I assume that the rats wouldn't have a reason to doubt the machinations of their government just yet, so you have one there.
As for Joseph, I do concede that, even despite his well-known efforts to recover as much documentation as possible, his strong support for Justin might be counted against him. The question, however, is how Raganzi would be able to convince the colony that he's somehow managed to find what even well-trained auditors missed (of course, it could be said that even they are part of the plot due to departmental loyalty!)
The plot, I think, depends entirely upon the efforts of players 'on the ground', as it were. If we had the volume of characters to sustain a conspiracy, then I'd be much more open and welcoming to this idea. I still think it can work somehow, but whether it can be done sooner or later is something we'll have to find out ourselves.
Resident spacecase
Inveterate dreamer
Resident spacecase
Inveterate dreamer
I'm a bit confused...
This would be an effort by one of Justin's enemies to frame him, correct? Not an actual fact?
I'm guessing yes n.n
It was kinda worded oddly, but that seems to be - and obviously is - the case.
Resident spacecase
Inveterate dreamer
Resident spacecase
Inveterate dreamer
Um, yeah
Sorry if I get rude, but isn't that pretty obvious? We all know Justin didn't really want or intend for Nicodemus to die. The only other possibility for this would be an effort to frame him for false crimes.
Or...some bogus theory that
Or...some bogus theory that Justin had a body double that would pose as him while he tried to cut the ropes, and Jenner just got in the way and accidently cut them in their fight.
However, it does not explain Jenner's attack on Mrs. Brisby.
Possibly, but...
That's another possibility, but I think we've all seen the movie (or read the book). Justin didn't seem anywhere near Jenner and his buddy when he cut the rope (unless Justin was in the camera crew that day :P). In any case, all these are possibilities, but I still stand my ground that they're trying to frame an innocent rat. It makes the most sense and leaves no holes to explain.
Then again...there could
Then again...there could have been a secret meeting between Jenner and Justin--and while they acted hostile towards one another to the public eye, perhaps they might have been closest of associates in private. Yet, it was a very high risk game they could have played that would cost one a life. Mrs. Brisby's intervention could have been what made the plan fail when Jenner grew aggrivated with her. Only then did Justin take up a sword against Jenner. His primary purpose was to protect Mrs. Brisby and perhaps during that conflict they shared, Jenner snapped and openly admitted he killed Nicodemus, and even though tension was high, Justin could have played the act that accused him of doing it in order to prevent others from thinking he had a hand in it.
This may have been mentioned
This may have been mentioned before, so sorry if it has. I've been away for a bit. I think it's a good idea but better if someone where trying to frame Justin and use Justin's own character against him. That, to me, makes the most sense.
Re: A Grand Machiavellian Scheme
This sounds like it was an interesting concept! Did anything come of it? Did it lead circuitously to the (possible) framing of Justin for a murder that we've got now? If this idea fizzled, this would be a great time to bring it back--at the prosecution for the trial, perhaps.
Re: A Grand Machiavellian Scheme
I think the idea of causing political turmoil and framing Justin have been floating around for a while now. This was just a potential method of putting it to work, and as you might guess, nothing ever came from it. I can't speak for Raganzi, but I don't think this idea had much of any influence on the current TP where Justin's been framed and will be going on trial in the nearish future.